Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10

I must be really deficient in musical sense: the only song of the greatest
of all male playback singers i would rewind and listen to again is
O.P.Nayyar's "lakhon hain yahaan dilwale"

Dhruva

P.S.: Sorry for the non-RD post. I tried all angles but there was not a
single crack through which i could bring him in.

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

others.
This particular song was picturised on Rishiji, amritaji, Dilip Kumar and
Ashok
Kumar.
Its a trio song sung by Asha Bhosle, Kishore Kumar and the gratest of all
male
playback singers Mahendra Kapoor.
Pancham used the vocals of Mahendra very rarely but whenever he used it

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

tum
mile koi yaad aa gaya picturised on Dilipji and the voice of Mahendra
brought a
fresh sense of melody to this song.
Asha's vocals added that extra oomph to the song and still remember
listening to
this particular song a number of times again and again and Amritaji on

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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anindya_roychowdhury

2010-09-03 06:29:16 UTC

to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..

his singing has a somewhat grating effect on my nerves:

Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)

Anindya

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
I must be really deficient in musical sense: the only song of the greatest
of all male playback singers i would rewind and listen to again is
O.P.Nayyar's "lakhon hain yahaan dilwale"
Dhruva
P.S.: Sorry for the non-RD post. I tried all angles but there was not a
single crack through which i could bring him in.

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-03 07:04:56 UTC

good one.. and thanks for bringing it back on track (RD-related)!

Dhruva

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 11:59 AM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
I must be really deficient in musical sense: the only song of the

greatest

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
of all male playback singers i would rewind and listen to again is
O.P.Nayyar's "lakhon hain yahaan dilwale"
Dhruva
P.S.: Sorry for the non-RD post. I tried all angles but there was not a
single crack through which i could bring him in.

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi

nahin

Post by Kaustubh Pingle

jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira

Banu

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
and

others.
This particular song was picturised on Rishiji, amritaji, Dilip Kumar

and

Post by Kaustubh Pingle

Ashok
Kumar.
Its a trio song sung by Asha Bhosle, Kishore Kumar and the gratest of

all

Post by Kaustubh Pingle

male
playback singers Mahendra Kapoor.
Pancham used the vocals of Mahendra very rarely but whenever he used

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham

jaga

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
gaya,

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-03 07:19:16 UTC

Hahahaha - had to say this....

Toooooo good Anindya :)))))))))

--- On Fri, 3/9/10, anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Friday, 3 September, 2010, 11:59 AM

to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..

his singing has a somewhat grating effect on my nerves:

Mazdooro.n ka naara hai

(whew..now it's RDB-related)

Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-03 17:21:12 UTC

Ouch....Mazdooron Ka Naara Hai....call me a fanatic with this one...but I end up sitting thru this song (without fastforwarding)every time I hear it - which is around once every 3-4 months in my MP3 order. It is easier when you focus on the music, the work you are doing, that empty spot in the sky....

But how about the not so 'gratest'??

'Nazar Mein Bijli Badan Mein Sholay' (Ehsan) - I actually liked his antara's he does seductive quite stiffly...but manages to succeed a bit.

'Dil To Lai Gava' (Bandhe Hath) - I was surprised to find Mahendra Kapoor join this madcap festivity with Pancham, Manna Dey and Asha. And he does hold out very well - providing a different (and needed) flavor with 'Meri Bhi To....'

'Maangi Thi Ik Dua' - ok...this one was made for Dilip Kumar. Like those Mukesh songs made of Raj Kapoor. Not just Pancham - but the entire Hindi film industry had this myopic view focussed on success to the extent that they became superstitious. Thus - come rain or shine - Dilip Kumar would have Mahendra Kapoor in the 80s and 90s - every composer would have Mahendra Kapoor on speed dial - the phone key was named 'Yusuf Ki Awaaz'.

But to Pancham's credit - he broke the mould many a times - giving two hoots to conventions and superstitions. Of course the producer/director pressure always made things tough.

But 'Maangi Thi Ik Dua' as a tune is very unlike Dilip-Mahendra combination. (BTW...I just broke the new found convention - no Ji....no sahab...no uncle...no chacha....Dilip-Mahendra Unplugged!) If one hums this tune on its own...I can almost imagine this to be a Bangla Puja tune...sung by Pancham in his inimitable vocals.

Sorry....where was I now...aah grating effect...all I can say is that 'Mera Channa Hai Apni Marzi Ka' - so there...I <grating teeth in agony> likes 'Mazdooron Ka Naara Hai'....with lots of disclaimers...

Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

pavanpooviahkc

2010-09-04 04:52:33 UTC

Dear Loin,

It was not that loRD was avoiding Mahendra Kapoor earlier ( say, in the 70s ). It may be due to the fact that Bhupinder Singh had already filled the slot.

If KA gave a racy no in Victoria 203 ( Do Bechare ), then loRD gave Dheko Hum dono of Double Cross. Similar songs. Former had MK and latter had BS.

Cheers / Pooviah

Post by shashirao
Ouch....Mazdooron Ka Naara Hai....call me a fanatic with this one...but I end up sitting thru this song (without fastforwarding)every time I hear it - which is around once every 3-4 months in my MP3 order. It is easier when you focus on the music, the work you are doing, that empty spot in the sky....
But how about the not so 'gratest'??
'Nazar Mein Bijli Badan Mein Sholay' (Ehsan) - I actually liked his antara's he does seductive quite stiffly...but manages to succeed a bit.
'Dil To Lai Gava' (Bandhe Hath) - I was surprised to find Mahendra Kapoor join this madcap festivity with Pancham, Manna Dey and Asha. And he does hold out very well - providing a different (and needed) flavor with 'Meri Bhi To....'
'Maangi Thi Ik Dua' - ok...this one was made for Dilip Kumar. Like those Mukesh songs made of Raj Kapoor. Not just Pancham - but the entire Hindi film industry had this myopic view focussed on success to the extent that they became superstitious. Thus - come rain or shine - Dilip Kumar would have Mahendra Kapoor in the 80s and 90s - every composer would have Mahendra Kapoor on speed dial - the phone key was named 'Yusuf Ki Awaaz'.
But to Pancham's credit - he broke the mould many a times - giving two hoots to conventions and superstitions. Of course the producer/director pressure always made things tough.
But 'Maangi Thi Ik Dua' as a tune is very unlike Dilip-Mahendra combination. (BTW...I just broke the new found convention - no Ji....no sahab...no uncle...no chacha....Dilip-Mahendra Unplugged!) If one hums this tune on its own...I can almost imagine this to be a Bangla Puja tune...sung by Pancham in his inimitable vocals.
Sorry....where was I now...aah grating effect...all I can say is that 'Mera Channa Hai Apni Marzi Ka' - so there...I <grating teeth in agony> likes 'Mazdooron Ka Naara Hai'....with lots of disclaimers...
Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-04 05:32:48 UTC

Interesting observation - but not very convinced that Bhupinder compensated for the Mahendra Kapoor slot in Pancham's music. In my opinion, Pancham did not have much use for the straight singing singers with limited range. And here Mahendra Kapoor and Mukesh come to mind amongst the leading singers. The reason was that Pancham's compositions were never simple - and were very tasking and demanding of the singers and musicians.

Most composers made music with the basic instruments - with extreme focus on the mukhada-antara. These basic instrument were usually the staid arrangements using the tabla, harmonium, dholaks, flute and if the mood was to become wild - perhaps a few congos and <excitement> electronic keyboards.

If you compare a music composer with a person with excellent taste in food or fashion - Pancham was at the top. His tastes were for the best...not only locally....but best in the world.

Ask any musician coordinator or agent - what kind of musicians he/she had to make available for a Pancham song. And compare with what they supplied for any other music composer.

With Pancham, his basic team was always on his payroll - so no need to depend on whoever is available to play the dholak.

Secondly with Pancham, his sense for tonal quality and instrument usage was so acute - he did not need a 100 violins to make impact. The same impact can be rendered with 2-5 violins - and he has demonstrated this amply.

And lastly - for any musician to be able to make it into Pancham's camp - he//she had to be exceptional and willing/talented to play something worthwhile.

In this environment - throw any singer. Any tepid mediocore singer will be eaten alive - first by the tough composition - and next by these talented musicians. Imagine the dread for a newcomer to be able to match wits with a Pt. Samta Prasad or Ulhas Bapat or Ronu Mazumdar or Homi Mullan, Kancha - these were folks who were not only adept...but known to innovate - keeping the singers on their toes.

Thus, tepid, average singers with standard rendition style and limited range - hardly had any scope in Pancham's songs. Except when there was a demand - either from the movie maker, producer, distributor, etc.

One look at Pancham's career is good enough to verify this claim - his most songs have been sung by the most talented and ready/able to innovate.

So coming back to Mahendra Kapoor....ahem!

Loin

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Dear Loin,
It was not that loRD was avoiding Mahendra Kapoor earlier ( say, in the 70s ). It may be due to the fact that Bhupinder Singh had already filled the slot.
If KA gave a racy no in Victoria 203 ( Do Bechare ), then loRD gave Dheko Hum dono of Double Cross. Similar songs. Former had MK and latter had BS.
Cheers / Pooviah

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iyer, Ajit

2010-09-04 12:42:14 UTC

Nice post, bud.

From: shashirao [mailto:shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 01:32 AM
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org <pancham-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10

Interesting observation - but not very convinced that Bhupinder compensated for the Mahendra Kapoor slot in Pancham's music. In my opinion, Pancham did not have much use for the straight singing singers with limited range. And here Mahendra Kapoor and Mukesh come to mind amongst the leading singers. The reason was that Pancham's compositions were never simple - and were very tasking and demanding of the singers and musicians.

Most composers made music with the basic instruments - with extreme focus on the mukhada-antara. These basic instrument were usually the staid arrangements using the tabla, harmonium, dholaks, flute and if the mood was to become wild - perhaps a few congos and <excitement> electronic keyboards.

If you compare a music composer with a person with excellent taste in food or fashion - Pancham was at the top. His tastes were for the best...not only locally....but best in the world.

Ask any musician coordinator or agent - what kind of musicians he/she had to make available for a Pancham song. And compare with what they supplied for any other music composer.

With Pancham, his basic team was always on his payroll - so no need to depend on whoever is available to play the dholak.

Secondly with Pancham, his sense for tonal quality and instrument usage was so acute - he did not need a 100 violins to make impact. The same impact can be rendered with 2-5 violins - and he has demonstrated this amply.

And lastly - for any musician to be able to make it into Pancham's camp - he//she had to be exceptional and willing/talented to play something worthwhile.

In this environment - throw any singer. Any tepid mediocore singer will be eaten alive - first by the tough composition - and next by these talented musicians. Imagine the dread for a newcomer to be able to match wits with a Pt. Samta Prasad or Ulhas Bapat or Ronu Mazumdar or Homi Mullan, Kancha - these were folks who were not only adept...but known to innovate - keeping the singers on their toes.

Thus, tepid, average singers with standard rendition style and limited range - hardly had any scope in Pancham's songs. Except when there was a demand - either from the movie maker, producer, distributor, etc.

One look at Pancham's career is good enough to verify this claim - his most songs have been sung by the most talented and ready/able to innovate.

So coming back to Mahendra Kapoor....ahem!

Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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pavanpooviahkc

2010-09-04 15:11:34 UTC

Loin,

Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.

But regarding Mahendra Kapoor ? He gave us unforgettable songs mainly for Ravi ( Eg. Humraaz, Dhund, etc ). We cannot brush him away. Can we ?

Picturise this. MK singing Dil ki yeh arzoo ( Nikaah ) which I hope you will agree was a good song in terms of quality of singing. And then imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.And vice versa. Bhupinder singing Dil ki..Would you have felt a huge diference ?

Pooviah

Post by shashirao
Interesting observation - but not very convinced that Bhupinder compensated for the Mahendra Kapoor slot in Pancham's music. In my opinion, Pancham did not have much use for the straight singing singers with limited range. And here Mahendra Kapoor and Mukesh come to mind amongst the leading singers. The reason was that Pancham's compositions were never simple - and were very tasking and demanding of the singers and musicians.
Most composers made music with the basic instruments - with extreme focus on the mukhada-antara. These basic instrument were usually the staid arrangements using the tabla, harmonium, dholaks, flute and if the mood was to become wild - perhaps a few congos and <excitement> electronic keyboards.
If you compare a music composer with a person with excellent taste in food or fashion - Pancham was at the top. His tastes were for the best...not only locally....but best in the world.
Ask any musician coordinator or agent - what kind of musicians he/she had to make available for a Pancham song. And compare with what they supplied for any other music composer.
With Pancham, his basic team was always on his payroll - so no need to depend on whoever is available to play the dholak.
Secondly with Pancham, his sense for tonal quality and instrument usage was so acute - he did not need a 100 violins to make impact. The same impact can be rendered with 2-5 violins - and he has demonstrated this amply.
And lastly - for any musician to be able to make it into Pancham's camp - he//she had to be exceptional and willing/talented to play something worthwhile.
In this environment - throw any singer. Any tepid mediocore singer will be eaten alive - first by the tough composition - and next by these talented musicians. Imagine the dread for a newcomer to be able to match wits with a Pt. Samta Prasad or Ulhas Bapat or Ronu Mazumdar or Homi Mullan, Kancha - these were folks who were not only adept...but known to innovate - keeping the singers on their toes.
Thus, tepid, average singers with standard rendition style and limited range - hardly had any scope in Pancham's songs. Except when there was a demand - either from the movie maker, producer, distributor, etc.
One look at Pancham's career is good enough to verify this claim - his most songs have been sung by the most talented and ready/able to innovate.
So coming back to Mahendra Kapoor....ahem!
Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

anindya_roychowdhury

2010-09-04 15:56:38 UTC

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.

imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.

<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

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Joy Christie

2010-09-04 16:01:50 UTC

Dear Loin
Pancham's selection for kinara naam gum jayega a very nice and a masterpiece of Pancham but I wont agree that MK must have been there. I respect each and every musiciab, singer and so on but for kinara Bhupedra Singh was the right choice

No comments oh how would the song had been because I wish to follow the guidelines of our group

Joy

--- On Sat, 4/9/10, anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Saturday, 4 September, 2010, 9:26 PM

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.

imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.

<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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shashirao

2010-09-05 19:45:34 UTC

Joy,

It was Pooviah who had made that suggestion. Andy had responded with his disapproval. I had not made a comment yet.

Cheers
Loin

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Dear Loin
Pancham's selection for kinara naam gum jayega a very nice and a masterpiece of Pancham but I wont agree that MK must have been there. I respect each and every musiciab, singer and so on but for kinara Bhupedra Singh was the right choice

No comments oh how would the song had been because I wish to follow the guidelines of our group

Joy

Subject: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10
Date: Saturday, 4 September, 2010, 9:26 PM

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.

imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-04 16:13:44 UTC

MK could never have sung the song with the pronunciation of Bhupinder: Daab
gub jayega!

Dhruva

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and

musicians.
imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

anindya_roychowdhury

2010-09-04 17:57:40 UTC

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
MK could never have sung the song with the pronunciation of Bhupinder: Daab
gub jayega!

:) I had always thought that Gulzar was trying to add a realistic touch...Dharam going out with Hema in those ruins on a chilly winter night, and catching a bad cold

but MK would have turned this into the battle cry of the Zulus

Anindya

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
Dhruva
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and

musicians.
imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-05 04:08:31 UTC

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:27 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
Daab

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
gub jayega!

:) I had always thought that Gulzar was trying to add a realistic
touch...Dharam going out with Hema in those ruins on a chilly winter night,
and catching a bad cold
but MK would have turned this into the battle cry of the Zulus
Anindya
MK is certainly the gratest male battle-cry singer. If KKR could have got

MK to sing their "korbo lorbo jeetbo", they wouldn't have consistently
languished at the bottom of the table, He can turn most romantic songs into
desh-bhakti songs.

Dhruva

P.S: Sorry for non-RD post, but i've been provoked! ;-)

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
Dhruva
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

40yahoogroups.com>,

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and

musicians.
imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-05 16:58:48 UTC

I must compliment Nimish Dand for having one Pancham quality - at least in a slight measure...

His posts endure... simply grate !!!

--- On Sun, 5/9/10, Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Sunday, 5 September, 2010, 9:38 AM

On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 11:27 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
Daab

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
gub jayega!

:) I had always thought that Gulzar was trying to add a realistic
touch...Dharam going out with Hema in those ruins on a chilly winter night,
and catching a bad cold
but MK would have turned this into the battle cry of the Zulus
Anindya
MK is certainly the gratest male battle-cry singer. If KKR could have got

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
Dhruva
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

40yahoogroups.com>,

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and

musicians.
imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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shashirao

2010-09-05 20:17:50 UTC

LOL...if not for humor we would've aged faster. Cry of the Zulus indeed!

But I think Pancham had that idea much before - if one hears the wild cries of abandon in 'Dil To Lai Gawa' Bandhe Hath.

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
MK could never have sung the song with the pronunciation of Bhupinder: Daab
gub jayega!

:) I had always thought that Gulzar was trying to add a realistic touch...Dharam going out with Hema in those ruins on a chilly winter night, and catching a bad cold
but MK would have turned this into the battle cry of the Zulus
Anindya

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
Dhruva
On Sat, Sep 4, 2010 at 9:26 PM, anindya_roychowdhury <

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and

musicians.
imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.
<snipped>

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Would you have felt a huge diference ?

<shudder>...yes

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-05 16:41:06 UTC

Pawan,

I respect your posts, but I would rather have Bhuppi paired with Pancham more often than MK... at least I would not substitute him as the 2nd voice using MK in films like Kinaaraa... (the main protagonist's mostly being Kishore's) ...

Somehow, I do think Pancham had a "feel" for things... his team compositions, his instruments, his orchestration, etc. was indeed different for different people as Shashi pointed out...

Sorry - but I for one cannot imagine Sanjeev Kumar standing on a verandah on an early winter morning and emoting "Mitwaa - boley meethe bain" in MK's voice... agreed, Bhupi's voice seems to have the same heaviness to some... but to me he was certainly a much more accomplished singer... even his "Kisi najar ko teraa" - non-Pancham from Aetbaar I think - sounds beautiful in the right kind of mood...

And think for a while - would you really pair MK with Lata for "Beeti na bitaai raina" ? Naah - not me, certainly...

Reiterating here though - these are just my views, and I'll keep them to myself if suitably discouraged... :)

--- On Sat, 4/9/10, pavanpooviahkc <pavanpooviahkc-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: pavanpooviahkc <pavanpooviahkc-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Burmandidi and Rahulji song no:-10
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Saturday, 4 September, 2010, 8:41 PM

Loin,

Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.

But regarding Mahendra Kapoor ? He gave us unforgettable songs mainly for Ravi ( Eg. Humraaz, Dhund, etc ). We cannot brush him away. Can we ?

Picturise this. MK singing Dil ki yeh arzoo ( Nikaah ) which I hope you will agree was a good song in terms of quality of singing. And then imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.And vice versa. Bhupinder singing Dil ki..Would you have felt a huge diference ?

Pooviah

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-05 19:32:50 UTC

Pooviah,

I am not brushing off Mahendra Kapoor. All I am saying is that there was not much scope for him in the style, type, level or genre that Pancham created.

And why look at this from Pancham's perspective? - lets look at Mahendra Kapooor as a singer. Most or all songs of merit you mention are composed by Ravi. Mahendra Kapoor had this specific range, style, quality that matched perfectly with the style of Ravi. One cannot deny that Mahendra Kapoor hardly made a breakthru across composers in becoming their consistent favorite. I am comparing with Kishore Kumar and Mohd Rafi.

I can make similar observation about Yesudas and his melodious/magical pairing with Ravindra Jain. Does that mean one can brush off Yesudas numbers? Just like Mahendra Kapoor's classics - a resounding NO!

But does that mean they were a good fit for Pancham's songs - not really. And this is not really my sole judgement/opinion. Pancham's career graph demonstrates this. He had many talented male singers like Bhupinder, Manna Dey, Kishore Kumar, etc. to keep him busy.

And Pancham was never in the market to become 'popular' and churned out 50-60 non-descript soundtracks a year to corner the King of the Hill designation. His preference was more in terms of focussing on his work - rather than solely pander to what is 'popular'. Thus there were certain paths he preferred to give a miss...or travel infrequently...Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh, Yesudas, and others come to mind.

And for anyone else reading slight, insult or derision in this choice - rest assured. Pancham was the princely gentleman of the highest order in Bollywood - if he did not work enough with someone it didn't mean he did not respect the person or his/her talent.

Not sure what you mean to demonstrate with the Bhupinder-Mahendra Kapoor and the Nikaah/Kinara song. To me even the songs are not at the same level. 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo' is a more straightforward mehfil song - where the emphasis is on the lead singer - bare music arrangement - and all the drama/histronics of the lead actors in the mehfil. To me a comparable Pancham number perhaps would be 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si' - in terms of situation.

As for 'Naam Gum Jayega' - this is more philosophical - not targetted at anyone in general...but on one's journey. The scale that Bhupinder sings in this number - he could sleepwalk thru 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo'. And Bhupinder has sung many ghazals in a mehfil environment.

Still not sure how I can compare the 2 and think from any perspective that the singers were interchangeable between the 2 songs.

But it is an interesting thought - since Mahendra Kapoor has sung many semi-classical numbers - his version of 'Waqt Ke Sitam....' is an interesting thought. Chalo...weekend ke liye...even this khayaali pulao is appetizing.

Loin

Post by pavanpooviahkc
Loin,
Cannot agree with you more on LoRD' choices for instruments and musicians.
But regarding Mahendra Kapoor ? He gave us unforgettable songs mainly for Ravi ( Eg. Humraaz, Dhund, etc ). We cannot brush him away. Can we ?
Picturise this. MK singing Dil ki yeh arzoo ( Nikaah ) which I hope you will agree was a good song in terms of quality of singing. And then imagine LoRD replacing Bhupinder with MK in Naam gum jaayega of Kinara.And vice versa. Bhupinder singing Dil ki..Would you have felt a huge diference ?
Pooviah

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Manoj Bhagya home

2010-09-05 20:44:05 UTC

Hey Loin,

One more for the wknd.

U r quite right. AFAMMG (new term - as far as my memory goes), I dont remember a single song fm the RD-MK combo, as embellished in memory unless one is a statistician. Apart from Ravi & sometimes KA/ LP, MK was not used pre-Rafi's (MR) passing away. He was a subtle replacement in MR's genre including for MDs like Naushad owing to his classical b/g. Like u rightly say, Yesudas wasnt used by RD. Attended an Asha/ SPB/Yesudas concert here in Dubai and witnessed Yesudas nodding his head sublimely (I am his fan as long as Mallu/ SC & RJ & a couple of RR songs - Kaa karoon sajani for e.g., are concerned) while AB & SPB were going ga-ga abt RD's compos & sung 'em as well. All the same Yesudas cudnt/wudnt fit into the RD mould IMHO esp given the lyricists working for RD, courtesy the pronunciation
.

On a very different and digressive note...how is it that some of us hard core Pm fans have a collectively different opinion when it comes to mass ones. While we have a fave dislike for LP and now partially (being polite here) say MK, we dont mind RR. RR/ RJ was a topic I remember we discussed, perhaps around 10 yrs back. This is not to veer away from the core Pm topic. My Question is ..does it have to do something with our eardrums being collectively judgemental/ partial?:-)

Will post shortly as to how I became a fan of z LoRD. That was a good thread to which some hard core fans didnt contribute. Kindly do so. Would b good memoirs/ memorablia.

cheers,
manoj

----- Original Message -----
From: shashirao
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:32 PM
Subject: [Pancham] Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor

Pooviah,

I am not brushing off Mahendra Kapoor. All I am saying is that there was not much scope for him in the style, type, level or genre that Pancham created.

And why look at this from Pancham's perspective? - lets look at Mahendra Kapooor as a singer. Most or all songs of merit you mention are composed by Ravi. Mahendra Kapoor had this specific range, style, quality that matched perfectly with the style of Ravi. One cannot deny that Mahendra Kapoor hardly made a breakthru across composers in becoming their consistent favorite. I am comparing with Kishore Kumar and Mohd Rafi.

I can make similar observation about Yesudas and his melodious/magical pairing with Ravindra Jain. Does that mean one can brush off Yesudas numbers? Just like Mahendra Kapoor's classics - a resounding NO!

But does that mean they were a good fit for Pancham's songs - not really. And this is not really my sole judgement/opinion. Pancham's career graph demonstrates this. He had many talented male singers like Bhupinder, Manna Dey, Kishore Kumar, etc. to keep him busy.

And Pancham was never in the market to become 'popular' and churned out 50-60 non-descript soundtracks a year to corner the King of the Hill designation. His preference was more in terms of focussing on his work - rather than solely pander to what is 'popular'. Thus there were certain paths he preferred to give a miss...or travel infrequently...Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh, Yesudas, and others come to mind.

And for anyone else reading slight, insult or derision in this choice - rest assured. Pancham was the princely gentleman of the highest order in Bollywood - if he did not work enough with someone it didn't mean he did not respect the person or his/her talent.

Not sure what you mean to demonstrate with the Bhupinder-Mahendra Kapoor and the Nikaah/Kinara song. To me even the songs are not at the same level. 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo' is a more straightforward mehfil song - where the emphasis is on the lead singer - bare music arrangement - and all the drama/histronics of the lead actors in the mehfil. To me a comparable Pancham number perhaps would be 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si' - in terms of situation.

As for 'Naam Gum Jayega' - this is more philosophical - not targetted at anyone in general...but on one's journey. The scale that Bhupinder sings in this number - he could sleepwalk thru 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo'. And Bhupinder has sung many ghazals in a mehfil environment.

Still not sure how I can compare the 2 and think from any perspective that the singers were interchangeable between the 2 songs.

But it is an interesting thought - since Mahendra Kapoor has sung many semi-classical numbers - his version of 'Waqt Ke Sitam....' is an interesting thought. Chalo...weekend ke liye...even this khayaali pulao is appetizing.

Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-05 21:22:17 UTC

Manoj,

Yes - enough has been said about Mahendra Kapoor - in fact a little bit more than what he sang under Pancham's baton. But I think one needs to relisten to the James Bond style 'Nazar Mein Bijli' in Ehsan - Pancham does with Mahendra Kapoor what he did with Rafi in The Train. Of course I think Mahendra Kapoor kind of goes awry in the high scale...but it could be me.

As for Yesudas - I think one of the larger issue at hand was that he was so popular in Kerala - that was his base. Composers would have to seek him out and bring to Mumbai for their Hindi songs. Not many composers went that length. Pancham had his own set of singers he preferred to fly in. SPB was one such instance.

I think if Pancham's songs were blessed by association with SPB, RR and RJ's tunes were taken to the next level by Yesudas. So we definitely agree.

The last point you make on our common tastes and distastes - I think that points to a much higher trait here - the trait to listen to, the penchant for good music.

Pancham draws some of the most talented, knowledgeable and passionate fans. Isn't that the mark of a genius. Thus there is a common understanding of what is good music and what is mediocore.

In Pancham's fan base you would not find folks who could not write more than 3 lines on the composition of their like. You will not find fans preen about the success of the movie - with no mention of its songs.

And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound, attract and endear.

So if we like Rajesh Roshan - I think that has to do a lot with appreciation for smooth melody, impressive instrument play when it comes to guitars and congas, immaculate extraction of vocals from Kishore and Lata, pairing with some great writers - Gulzar, Majrooh, etc. How can one not but appreciate Rajesh Roshan of the 70s.

As for dislike for LP - I would not go that far. There are many LP songs which I consider to be good and worth repeat listening. But this is restricted till 73..75. After that I believe they slid into mediocrity and repeatative tunes - in their attempt at popularity and focus on quantity versus quality.

A bad composition is a bad composition is a bad composition. A bad arrangement is a bad arrangement is a bad arrangement. Mediocore singing, playing of an instrument, arrnagement is just that. Knows no boundaries nor is restricted to any particular composer.

That disclaimer set aside, some composers and artists have a more consistent track record at churning out mediocore and tepid output.

Anyways...why talk about sub-standard - we have Pancham to relish and rejoice.

Good to see you get "inspired" and churn out some stupendous (as opposed to mediocore) posts. Keep writing.

Shashi

on.

Post by Manoj Bhagya home
On a very different and digressive note...how is it that some of us hard core Pm fans have a collectively different opinion when it comes to mass ones. While we have a fave dislike for LP and now partially (being polite here) say MK, we dont mind RR. RR/ RJ was a topic I remember we discussed, perhaps around 10 yrs back. This is not to veer away from the core Pm topic. My Question is ..does it have to do something with our eardrums being collectively judgemental/ partial?:-)
Will post shortly as to how I became a fan of z LoRD. That was a good thread to which some hard core fans didnt contribute. Kindly do so. Would b good memoirs/ memorablia.
cheers,
manoj
----- Original Message -----
From: shashirao
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:32 PM
Subject: [Pancham] Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Pooviah,
I am not brushing off Mahendra Kapoor. All I am saying is that there was not much scope for him in the style, type, level or genre that Pancham created.
And why look at this from Pancham's perspective? - lets look at Mahendra Kapooor as a singer. Most or all songs of merit you mention are composed by Ravi. Mahendra Kapoor had this specific range, style, quality that matched perfectly with the style of Ravi. One cannot deny that Mahendra Kapoor hardly made a breakthru across composers in becoming their consistent favorite. I am comparing with Kishore Kumar and Mohd Rafi.
I can make similar observation about Yesudas and his melodious/magical pairing with Ravindra Jain. Does that mean one can brush off Yesudas numbers? Just like Mahendra Kapoor's classics - a resounding NO!
But does that mean they were a good fit for Pancham's songs - not really. And this is not really my sole judgement/opinion. Pancham's career graph demonstrates this. He had many talented male singers like Bhupinder, Manna Dey, Kishore Kumar, etc. to keep him busy.
And Pancham was never in the market to become 'popular' and churned out 50-60 non-descript soundtracks a year to corner the King of the Hill designation. His preference was more in terms of focussing on his work - rather than solely pander to what is 'popular'. Thus there were certain paths he preferred to give a miss...or travel infrequently...Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh, Yesudas, and others come to mind.
And for anyone else reading slight, insult or derision in this choice - rest assured. Pancham was the princely gentleman of the highest order in Bollywood - if he did not work enough with someone it didn't mean he did not respect the person or his/her talent.
Not sure what you mean to demonstrate with the Bhupinder-Mahendra Kapoor and the Nikaah/Kinara song. To me even the songs are not at the same level. 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo' is a more straightforward mehfil song - where the emphasis is on the lead singer - bare music arrangement - and all the drama/histronics of the lead actors in the mehfil. To me a comparable Pancham number perhaps would be 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si' - in terms of situation.
As for 'Naam Gum Jayega' - this is more philosophical - not targetted at anyone in general...but on one's journey. The scale that Bhupinder sings in this number - he could sleepwalk thru 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo'. And Bhupinder has sung many ghazals in a mehfil environment.
Still not sure how I can compare the 2 and think from any perspective that the singers were interchangeable between the 2 songs.
But it is an interesting thought - since Mahendra Kapoor has sung many semi-classical numbers - his version of 'Waqt Ke Sitam....' is an interesting thought. Chalo...weekend ke liye...even this khayaali pulao is appetizing.
Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-05 21:46:11 UTC

Bingo !!!

Can't help but be totally in agreement again...

--- On Mon, 6/9/10, shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 2:52 AM

Manoj,

Yes - enough has been said about Mahendra Kapoor - in fact a little bit more than what he sang under Pancham's baton. But I think one needs to relisten to the James Bond style 'Nazar Mein Bijli' in Ehsan - Pancham does with Mahendra Kapoor what he did with Rafi in The Train. Of course I think Mahendra Kapoor kind of goes awry in the high scale...but it could be me.

As for Yesudas - I think one of the larger issue at hand was that he was so popular in Kerala - that was his base. Composers would have to seek him out and bring to Mumbai for their Hindi songs. Not many composers went that length. Pancham had his own set of singers he preferred to fly in. SPB was one such instance.

I think if Pancham's songs were blessed by association with SPB, RR and RJ's tunes were taken to the next level by Yesudas. So we definitely agree.

The last point you make on our common tastes and distastes - I think that points to a much higher trait here - the trait to listen to, the penchant for good music.

Pancham draws some of the most talented, knowledgeable and passionate fans. Isn't that the mark of a genius. Thus there is a common understanding of what is good music and what is mediocore.

In Pancham's fan base you would not find folks who could not write more than 3 lines on the composition of their like. You will not find fans preen about the success of the movie - with no mention of its songs.

And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound, attract and endear.

So if we like Rajesh Roshan - I think that has to do a lot with appreciation for smooth melody, impressive instrument play when it comes to guitars and congas, immaculate extraction of vocals from Kishore and Lata, pairing with some great writers - Gulzar, Majrooh, etc. How can one not but appreciate Rajesh Roshan of the 70s.

As for dislike for LP - I would not go that far. There are many LP songs which I consider to be good and worth repeat listening. But this is restricted till 73..75. After that I believe they slid into mediocrity and repeatative tunes - in their attempt at popularity and focus on quantity versus quality.

A bad composition is a bad composition is a bad composition. A bad arrangement is a bad arrangement is a bad arrangement. Mediocore singing, playing of an instrument, arrnagement is just that. Knows no boundaries nor is restricted to any particular composer.

That disclaimer set aside, some composers and artists have a more consistent track record at churning out mediocore and tepid output.

Anyways...why talk about sub-standard - we have Pancham to relish and rejoice.

Good to see you get "inspired" and churn out some stupendous (as opposed to mediocore) posts. Keep writing.

Shashi

Post by Manoj Bhagya home
Hey Loin,
One more for the wknd.
U r quite right. AFAMMG (new term - as far as my memory goes), I dont remember a single song fm the RD-MK combo, as embellished in memory unless one is a statistician. Apart from Ravi & sometimes KA/ LP, MK was not used pre-Rafi's (MR) passing away. He was a subtle replacement in MR's genre including for MDs like Naushad owing to his classical b/g. Like u rightly say, Yesudas wasnt used by RD. Attended an Asha/ SPB/Yesudas concert here in Dubai and witnessed Yesudas nodding his head sublimely (I am his fan as long as Mallu/ SC & RJ & a couple of RR songs - Kaa karoon sajani for e.g., are concerned) while AB & SPB were going ga-ga abt RD's compos & sung 'em as well. All the same Yesudas cudnt/wudnt fit into the RD mould IMHO esp given the lyricists working for RD, courtesy the pronunciation.
On a very different and digressive note...how is it that some of us hard core Pm fans have a collectively different opinion when it comes to mass ones. While we have a fave dislike for LP and now partially (being polite here) say MK, we dont mind RR. RR/ RJ was a topic I remember we discussed, perhaps around 10 yrs back. This is not to veer away from the core Pm topic. My Question is ..does it have to do something with our eardrums being collectively judgemental/ partial?:-)
Will post shortly as to how I became a fan of z LoRD. That was a good thread to which some hard core fans didnt contribute. Kindly do so. Would b good memoirs/ memorablia.
cheers,
manoj
----- Original Message -----
From: shashirao
Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 11:32 PM
Subject: [Pancham] Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Pooviah,
I am not brushing off Mahendra Kapoor. All I am saying is that there was not much scope for him in the style, type, level or genre that Pancham created.
And why look at this from Pancham's perspective? - lets look at Mahendra Kapooor as a singer. Most or all songs of merit you mention are composed by Ravi. Mahendra Kapoor had this specific range, style, quality that matched perfectly with the style of Ravi. One cannot deny that Mahendra Kapoor hardly made a breakthru across composers in becoming their consistent favorite. I am comparing with Kishore Kumar and Mohd Rafi.
I can make similar observation about Yesudas and his melodious/magical pairing with Ravindra Jain. Does that mean one can brush off Yesudas numbers? Just like Mahendra Kapoor's classics - a resounding NO!
But does that mean they were a good fit for Pancham's songs - not really. And this is not really my sole judgement/opinion. Pancham's career graph demonstrates this. He had many talented male singers like Bhupinder, Manna Dey, Kishore Kumar, etc. to keep him busy.
And Pancham was never in the market to become 'popular' and churned out 50-60 non-descript soundtracks a year to corner the King of the Hill designation. His preference was more in terms of focussing on his work - rather than solely pander to what is 'popular'. Thus there were certain paths he preferred to give a miss...or travel infrequently...Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh, Yesudas, and others come to mind.
And for anyone else reading slight, insult or derision in this choice - rest assured. Pancham was the princely gentleman of the highest order in Bollywood - if he did not work enough with someone it didn't mean he did not respect the person or his/her talent.
Not sure what you mean to demonstrate with the Bhupinder-Mahendra Kapoor and the Nikaah/Kinara song. To me even the songs are not at the same level. 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo' is a more straightforward mehfil song - where the emphasis is on the lead singer - bare music arrangement - and all the drama/histronics of the lead actors in the mehfil. To me a comparable Pancham number perhaps would be 'Meri Bheegi Bheegi Si' - in terms of situation.
As for 'Naam Gum Jayega' - this is more philosophical - not targetted at anyone in general...but on one's journey. The scale that Bhupinder sings in this number - he could sleepwalk thru 'Dil Ki Yeh Arzoo'. And Bhupinder has sung many ghazals in a mehfil environment.
Still not sure how I can compare the 2 and think from any perspective that the singers were interchangeable between the 2 songs.
But it is an interesting thought - since Mahendra Kapoor has sung many semi-classical numbers - his version of 'Waqt Ke Sitam....' is an interesting thought. Chalo...weekend ke liye...even this khayaali pulao is appetizing.
Loin

Post by anindya_roychowdhury
to be fair, the term used is "gratest" of all...which I kind of agree with..
Mazdooro.n ka naara hai
(whew..now it's RDB-related)
Anindya

Post by Kaustubh Pingle
My salaam to the greatest playback singer !

Jhumti raat jawaan, jagmagaata yeh jahan, do ghadi ka hai samaa koi nahin
jaane
yahan..............
An excellent song from the film Duniya starring Dilip Kumar, Saira Banu

and

the

song
became a masterpiece.
I particularly remember the lines of the antara, Ek naam sau gham jaga

gaya,

whom

this
song was picturised looked more expressive and beautiful because of

Asha's

vocals.
A great song indeed!!!
Nimesh Dand.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ali_rashid83

2010-09-06 09:23:22 UTC

Shashi,

"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound, attract and endear."

----------

One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols. There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.

I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.

Cheers

Ali

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shashirao

2010-09-06 18:15:25 UTC

Ali,

Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.

This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.

If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.

I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.

Cheers
Shashi

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound, attract and endear."
----------
One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols. There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.
I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.
Cheers
Ali

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-06 18:53:05 UTC

And to be honest... I see absolutely nothing wrong in naming Pancham the brightest star... he simply was that - period.

I am really not entirely against conviction... in fact, I cannot understand those people who admire one and all with no total belief in one person as if...

For instance, someone might even be justified in calling Mahendra Kapoor the gratest singer, but I think "common" sense - and here it means only what commong people think, not geniuses - should be able to lay down some rules at least... which is why I had said - in a rather argumentative tone I admit - that I may be a huge admirer of Harbhajan Singh the batsman.... but he cannot be a shade on Sachin still...

I see absolutely no point in how calling Pancham the greatest insults anyone... for that matter, calling something/someone good is insulting the average !!! We cannot be so sensitive if we wish to share joy among ourselves... there will be a bit of slapstick, a slight bit of ridicule and some comments... we cannot light an incense stick and sit for a puja each time we talk about Pancham and all other "equal" Gods of filmdom...

Finally - do you really think any other composer, though he may have a zillion more fans or popularity, etc. - will ever be capable of composing an "Aisa sama naa hotaa" or an "Ae saagar ki lehron" or a "Sili Hawa" or a "Raina beeti jaaye" ?

What range, what variety Pancham had... simply endless... he could live for a billion years, but he would never have run out of music - thats a guarantee !!! That man was a cascading waterfall... he has been running for ages... and will keep running for ages too...

But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a really large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze around in sincere but inept appreciation.... which is why there is all the more need for that "sense"... all the more reason for the genuine fan to stand by what he says... all the more reason for distinction.. though it may mean a frank assessment of lesser mortals...

Jai Pancham !!!

--- On Mon, 6/9/10, shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 11:45 PM

Ali,

Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.

This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.

If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.

I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.

Cheers

Shashi

anindya_roychowdhury

2010-09-06 19:21:24 UTC

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
I see absolutely no point in how calling Pancham the greatest insults anyone... for that matter, calling something/someone good is insulting the average !!! We cannot be so sensitive if we wish to share joy among ourselves... there will be a bit of slapstick, a slight bit of ridicule and some comments... we cannot light an incense stick and sit for a puja each time we talk about Pancham and all other "equal" Gods of filmdom...
Finally - do you really think any other composer, though he may have a zillion more fans or popularity, etc. - will ever be capable of composing an "Aisa sama naa hotaa" or an "Ae saagar ki lehron" or a "Sili Hawa" or a "Raina beeti jaaye" ?

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.

By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have then to bash Dr V?

If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan", instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with every such eulogistic comment/post.

Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
What range, what variety Pancham had... simply endless... he could live for a billion years, but he would never have run out of music - thats a guarantee !!! That man was a cascading waterfall... he has been running for ages... and will keep running for ages too...

Now *that* is an overstatement if ever there was one. One can argue the same for Jaikishen, Salil, SDB, Madan Mohan and others who passed away while they were still active. And, it may not sound pallatable to many, but I distinctly feel that, barring one brilliant soundtrack here or there, RDB too had lost his edge from the mid/late 80s onwards. And that's only natural. Contrary to what some may believe, he was still human!

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a really large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze around in sincere but inept appreciation.... which is why there is all the more need for that "sense"... all the more reason for the genuine fan to stand by what he says... all the more reason for distinction.. though it may mean a frank assessment of lesser mortals...

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head because we want him/her to see the world our way.

I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis through objective comparative analysis.

ok...nuff said.

Anindya

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Jai Pancham !!!
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 11:45 PM

Ali,
Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.
This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.
If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.
I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.
Cheers
Shashi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-06 19:52:32 UTC

Just a simple question I will ask you Anindya... point-blank though I may be accused of being... why don't you say who your favourite is then ? Or are you against having favourites at all ? If so, I will rest my case....

I still don't see how I am putting a gun to anyone's head... I am just coming out in the open as some do not seem to... and hope this too does not sound vainglorious...

To me no one else can make those songs, and I will always retain the right to say that.. can't see what's so offensive about it... especially on a Pancham forum... :)

--- On Tue, 7/9/10, anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 12:51 AM

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Jai Pancham !!!
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 11:45 PM
Â
Ali,
Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.
This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.
If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.
I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.
Cheers
Shashi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-06 20:23:20 UTC

Ok...changing the thread title here...

After reading Shirish's contention and Anindya's counterpoints, I am planning to sit on the fence on this....err...don the white wig and sit on the chair typically reserved for Murad, Ashok Kumar, etc.

I definitely agree with Shirish that one need not light an agarbatee and hesitate from calling a spade a spade. Respect for an artist and discussing an artist's works are complementary not conjoined subjects. This political correctness of "all artists were equally great" is wearing thin on me. Let's not 'Waah Waah' an artist to demonstrate "our understanding", "our tolerance", "our knowledge" or "our vast ocean of likings" to anyone.

But at the same time, that same agarbatee can burn the extreme bhakts. It is quite typical for any group to have fanatics with extreme devotion. A good sign is to have members scaling the entire spectrum of devotion - the steadfast/blinded to the questioning - which I truly believe this group has managed to foster in its membership.

As for branding fans as 'typical PanchamBhakt's' - and the fear of being branded one. I have a simple question - by adopting "the global perspective" of branding one as a fan of all good music and composers - does this merit badge give one any leverage in dealing with bigoted and prejudiced people? an additional iota of "respectability?"

As I mentioned....I am still on the fence on this one....let's hear some more opinions and views...

Loin

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.
By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have then to bash Dr V?
If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan", instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with every such eulogistic comment/post.
Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head because we want him/her to see the world our way.
I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis through objective comparative analysis.
ok...nuff said.
Anindya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-06 20:46:53 UTC

Correction: What I meant to state: "Respect for an artist and discussing an artist's works objectively are complementary tasks - not mutually obstructive items".

Post by shashirao
Ok...changing the thread title here...
After reading Shirish's contention and Anindya's counterpoints, I am planning to sit on the fence on this....err...don the white wig and sit on the chair typically reserved for Murad, Ashok Kumar, etc.
I definitely agree with Shirish that one need not light an agarbatee and hesitate from calling a spade a spade. Respect for an artist and discussing an artist's works are complementary not conjoined subjects. This political correctness of "all artists were equally great" is wearing thin on me. Let's not 'Waah Waah' an artist to demonstrate "our understanding", "our tolerance", "our knowledge" or "our vast ocean of likings" to anyone.
But at the same time, that same agarbatee can burn the extreme bhakts. It is quite typical for any group to have fanatics with extreme devotion. A good sign is to have members scaling the entire spectrum of devotion - the steadfast/blinded to the questioning - which I truly believe this group has managed to foster in its membership.
As for branding fans as 'typical PanchamBhakt's' - and the fear of being branded one. I have a simple question - by adopting "the global perspective" of branding one as a fan of all good music and composers - does this merit badge give one any leverage in dealing with bigoted and prejudiced people? an additional iota of "respectability?"
As I mentioned....I am still on the fence on this one....let's hear some more opinions and views...
Loin

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.
By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have then to bash Dr V?
If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan", instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with every such eulogistic comment/post.
Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head because we want him/her to see the world our way.
I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis through objective comparative analysis.
ok...nuff said.
Anindya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ritesh Gadhvi

2010-09-06 20:55:21 UTC

Me Lord,

Would like to say something.

There is very thin line between fan and fanatic. Depends on the degree
of argument and provocation made by opposition. Also have to check
whether there are valid points or just vague statements.

In my quest for music, I have heard all type of music, hindi, english,
regional, world music, all stalwarts from Saigal to todays Vishal
Shekhar covering an entire period from 1940 to 2010. From all the
great MD's be it Naushad, SJ, OPN, SDB, MM, or Panchamda's
contemporaries KA, LP, RR, BL or today gen . I have not found a single
MD who is so versatile, innovative, experimental as Pancham. I will
also try to explain this statement in depth and detail as this thread
progress, this in no way undermines all the great's I have mentioned
contibution.

Resting my case now,

Post by shashirao
Ok...changing the thread title here...
After reading Shirish's contention and Anindya's counterpoints, I am
planning to sit on the fence on this....err...don the white wig and sit on
the chair typically reserved for Murad, Ashok Kumar, etc.
I definitely agree with Shirish that one need not light an agarbatee and
hesitate from calling a spade a spade. Respect for an artist and discussing
an artist's works are complementary not conjoined subjects. This political
correctness of "all artists were equally great" is wearing thin on me. Let's
not 'Waah Waah' an artist to demonstrate "our understanding", "our
tolerance", "our knowledge" or "our vast ocean of likings" to anyone.
But at the same time, that same agarbatee can burn the extreme bhakts. It is
quite typical for any group to have fanatics with extreme devotion. A good
sign is to have members scaling the entire spectrum of devotion - the
steadfast/blinded to the questioning - which I truly believe this group has
managed to foster in its membership.
As for branding fans as 'typical PanchamBhakt's' - and the fear of being
branded one. I have a simple question - by adopting "the global perspective"
of branding one as a fan of all good music and composers - does this merit
badge give one any leverage in dealing with bigoted and prejudiced people?
an additional iota of "respectability?"
As I mentioned....I am still on the fence on this one....let's hear some
more opinions and views...
Loin

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
I see absolutely no point in how calling Pancham the greatest insults
anyone... for that matter, calling something/someone good is insulting
the average !!! We cannot be so sensitive if we wish to share joy among
ourselves... there will be a bit of slapstick, a slight bit of ridicule
and some comments... we cannot light an incense stick and sit for a puja
each time we talk about Pancham and all other "equal" Gods of filmdom...
Finally - do you really think any other composer, though he may have a
zillion more fans or popularity, etc. - will ever be capable of
composing an "Aisa sama naa hotaa" or an "Ae saagar ki lehron" or a
"Sili Hawa" or a "Raina beeti jaaye" ?

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like
is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who
believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for
very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol
a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.
By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being
as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have
then to bash Dr V?
If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an
attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is
deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan",
instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with
every such eulogistic comment/post.
Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
What range, what variety Pancham had... simply endless... he could live
for a billion years, but he would never have run out of music - thats a
guarantee !!! That man was a cascading waterfall... he has been running
for ages... and will keep running for ages too...

Now *that* is an overstatement if ever there was one. One can argue the
same for Jaikishen, Salil, SDB, Madan Mohan and others who passed away
while they were still active. And, it may not sound pallatable to many,
but I distinctly feel that, barring one brilliant soundtrack here or
there, RDB too had lost his edge from the mid/late 80s onwards. And that's
only natural. Contrary to what some may believe, he was still human!

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a
really large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just
laze around in sincere but inept appreciation.... which is why there is
all the more need for that "sense"... all the more reason for the
genuine fan to stand by what he says... all the more reason for
distinction.. though it may mean a frank assessment of lesser mortals...

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head
because we want him/her to see the world our way.
I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is
objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM
non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his
work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain
in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his
trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who
proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he
doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion
that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis
through objective comparative analysis.
ok...nuff said.
Anindya

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Jai Pancham !!!
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Monday, 6 September, 2010, 11:45 PM
Â
Ali,
Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree
with) my statement praising Pancham.
This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other
artist when I made that statement.
If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other
artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them
either.
I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO)
popularity and creativity.
Cheers
Shashi

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having
hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense
depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound,
attract and endear."
----------
One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols.
There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented
artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.
I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.
Cheers
Ali

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-06 20:55:47 UTC

Shashi - thanks...

I for one openly admit being somewhat of a fanatic, but not totally as I will presently try and elucidate... reason - I have ACTUALLY not heard too much HFM to have a really well-sounded opinion... in fact have not heard so much of RD as you guys perhaps, Anindya included...

Its another matter that the moment I hear some of it, I think I am better off with no shape to my likes/dislikes... round or otherwise... :)

I will try clarify though... Take for instance certain "crap" songs by RDB... I myself initially had listened to "Aisaa lagaa koi surmaa najar maa" from Namkeen and not had too high an opinion of it.. there too, I would have called a spade a spade... I am well aware Pancham himself did not take his greatness too seriously, though he always took his art very, very seriously... this is a very subtle difference btw...

But then I saw the film... and the mood in which that song had been "placed" in the movie... it was a roadside nautanki, to which truck drivers and the like had flocked... They had certainly not assembled for a "Khamosh sa afsaanaa" or even a "Raah pe rehte hain"...

And I started seeing how Pancham sometimes - or at most times - saw the point... he gave in.. sometimes to producers, sometimes to the situation if nothing else...

Now c'mon... if he were to conduct a Royal Philharmonic Orchestra each tie he stepped on stage, it was asking too much of the poor human he definitely was... no denying that...

But I will always - and most, most vehemently - say that when I listen to that string of the very best songs that I can and sometimes do keep listing here, I cannot but help say what I say.. and that does amount to calling him the very best.. so why not say it inplain and simple terms ?? Just why not ?

Its like not breathing for fear that I may emit carbon-dioxide and suffocate others...

Moreover, however much I hate going to the root of things each time and looking unnecessarily peeved... I do think this forum is also a bit too much about the "knowledgable elite" that can tell the sound of each instrument, each raaga, each singer's tone and style, etc. as much as it is about plain, simple and rather gullible RD fanatics :))

I am not pointing fingers, mind you.. I would rather say it frankly than use innuendos... but we all do respect knowledge only as long as it does not overtake the subject...

Yes - I do see the point now that going on breathlessly about Pancham may be tiresome at times, and also seem to people like a fanatic is declaring himself as that "bigger than anyone" lover of his music... I assure you, my intentions are never so... I would walk miles with bowed head to meet a Shashi Rao, an Ajit Iyer, a Ram or Anindya or a Sudhir Kulkarni... I KNOW - that their knowledge, certainly.. and their love for RD, perhaps or most probably - must be greater than mine... I have no problems with that or with myself...

But what's wrong if I actually feel what I say ? If everytime I hear a "Meraa Pyaar Shalimar" with those waves of violins coming on, I get those goosebumps even if its the seventeen hundredth occasion I may be hearing it ?

C'mon - for rationality's sake... lets just speak the truth.. and the truth is that RD is unique - period...

If someone else had made those rocking numbers to "wake" up a music scene that was in no way dead but needed a serious infusion of colour.... if someone else had made those amazing, amazing numbers with Gulzar... if someone else was talked about more after death than before... I would quietly and happily lay down arms, embrace the fella and either retire from all such groups.. or maybe openly shift loyalties and join that person's fanboys...

But alas - no such person has come still... and I see no signs of anyone coming, quite like RD... If my vision is myopic, if I have no music sense, if this is a slur... I apologise...

But I still remain proud of what I uphold... but this group is about RD, no ? And not his fans... :) .. it is of them, for them and by them, yes... but not about them for God's sake... !!!

God in this case being Pancham...

--- On Tue, 7/9/10, shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Pancham fan or fanatic?
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 1:53 AM

Ok...changing the thread title here...

After reading Shirish's contention and Anindya's counterpoints, I am planning to sit on the fence on this....err...don the white wig and sit on the chair typically reserved for Murad, Ashok Kumar, etc.

I definitely agree with Shirish that one need not light an agarbatee and hesitate from calling a spade a spade. Respect for an artist and discussing an artist's works are complementary not conjoined subjects. This political correctness of "all artists were equally great" is wearing thin on me. Let's not 'Waah Waah' an artist to demonstrate "our understanding", "our tolerance", "our knowledge" or "our vast ocean of likings" to anyone.

But at the same time, that same agarbatee can burn the extreme bhakts. It is quite typical for any group to have fanatics with extreme devotion. A good sign is to have members scaling the entire spectrum of devotion - the steadfast/blinded to the questioning - which I truly believe this group has managed to foster in its membership.

As for branding fans as 'typical PanchamBhakt's' - and the fear of being branded one. I have a simple question - by adopting "the global perspective" of branding one as a fan of all good music and composers - does this merit badge give one any leverage in dealing with bigoted and prejudiced people? an additional iota of "respectability?"

As I mentioned....I am still on the fence on this one....let's hear some more opinions and views...

Loin

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.
By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have then to bash Dr V?
If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan", instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with every such eulogistic comment/post.
Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head because we want him/her to see the world our way.
I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis through objective comparative analysis.
ok...nuff said.
Anindya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

anindya_roychowdhury

2010-09-06 21:01:55 UTC

I did not imply anything of the kind. That, by definition, would be a flawed statement. However, "my idol is the greatest and others are lesser mortals, and that's a FACT" because he is MY idol" is an equally fallacious assertion in any argument.

Let's not 'Waah Waah' an artist to demonstrate "our understanding", "our tolerance", "our knowledge" or "our vast ocean of likings" to anyone.

Post by shashirao
But at the same time, that same agarbatee can burn the extreme bhakts. It is quite typical for any group to have fanatics with extreme devotion.

yes, but when the saner and more experienced section of the group starts getting their objectivity clouded by extreme devotion, I start to get worried. We are, then, doing RDB more harm than good and providing more fodder to pseudo-journalists and RDB-detractors. We both know from specific instances that content of this group - even though that is not how it is intended - is great source material for many lurking quacks who earn a living perpetrating lies, half-truths and unverified facts (about RDB and his fans) for selling copies. Why help their cause, my friend?

Post by shashirao
A good sign is to have members scaling the entire spectrum of devotion - the steadfast/blinded to the questioning - which I truly believe this group has managed to foster in its membership.

Certainly, and when one sees the balance getting tipped one way or the other, one must intervene lest the scale topples completely. Not good for anyone.

Post by shashirao
As for branding fans as 'typical PanchamBhakt's' - and the fear of being branded one. I have a simple question - by adopting "the global perspective" of branding one as a fan of all good music and composers - does this merit badge give one any leverage in dealing with bigoted and prejudiced people? an additional iota of "respectability?"

I think it does. For, then you can counter the quacks and detractors at their own game with solid, well-backed up analysis and arguments.

Post by shashirao
As I mentioned....I am still on the fence on this one....let's hear some more opinions and views...

yes, please let's!

Post by shashirao
Loin

chooha

I'm sorry, but I think I'll have to disagree then. What this sounds like is blind faith, and complete lack of objectivity. For every RDB fan who believes he was the greatest, there is someone who might disagree, for very valid, logical reasons. That does not make a non-RDB fan or his idol a lesser mortal by any stretch of imagination.
By trying to shove our point of view, or liking for someone, we are being as Talibanic as the next rabid L-P, S-J fan. What moral ground do we have then to bash Dr V?
If you do consider yourself a true RDB fan, you would rather make an attempt to set right the growing misconception that goes around, and is deliberately fuelled by the likes of Dr V, about the "typical RDB fan", instead of driving our reputation a few inches deeper into the ground with every such eulogistic comment/post.
Eulogy is fine, but not when it is presented like absolute facts.

This is not a "frank assessment". This is putting a gun to someone's head because we want him/her to see the world our way.
I'm sorry, but I will have much greater respect for the RDB fan who is objective, has listened to, or listens to, a whole host of HFM and non-HFM non-RDB music to be able to make a more rounded evaluation/critque of his work. To true RDB fan should be able to sieve the chaff out from the grain in his output, which wasn't all gold, and have the conviction to call his trashy output trash. On the contrary, I have little regard for someone who proudly proclaims that he she will *only listen to* RDB's music since he doesn't care for anything else out there. I would pooh-pooh his assertion that "RDB was the greatest ever" for not being tested his hypothesis through objective comparative analysis.
ok...nuff said.
Anindya

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ali Rashid

2010-09-06 20:41:54 UTC

I agree with Anindya's comments!.

At the same time, this is a Pancham forum, and all the more power to praise him and his music.

I also don't see anything wrong in mentioning other artists or points etc as long as they are not in bad taste....they don't diminish Pancham's stature or achievements in any way....I am sure there are others on this group who appreciate good music (in general), and that includes Pancham.

Cheers

Ali

--- On Mon, 9/6/10, anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: anindya_roychowdhury <anindya_roychowdhury-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Received: Monday, September 6, 2010, 3:21 PM

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-07 06:15:57 UTC

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

While not going into copyright issues, just checked some torrent files and
7.89 GB worth of "R.D.Burman, All Songs Ever, mp3" are currently being
downloaded by 157 people. There's no danger of his songs not being
preserved!

Dhruva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-07 16:49:15 UTC

Dhruva,

I myself have downloaded that torrent long back... and am "discovering" gems one by one...

But honestly - don't you think that for a man of his range and magnitude, this is still a very small number ?

The torrent btw - does not, and surprisingly so - have songs that were popular and cult hits like "Lekar hum deewana dil" or the entire "Rocky" folder (there is a directory for each movie) or some other such well-known movies... but overall, the effort is good and the collection pretty comprehensive....

--- On Tue, 7/9/10, Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:45 AM

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

While not going into copyright issues, just checked some torrent files and

7.89 GB worth of "R.D.Burman, All Songs Ever, mp3" are currently being

downloaded by 157 people. There's no danger of his songs not being

preserved!

Dhruva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-07 17:44:08 UTC

Shirish,

I too have all the songs of that torrent on CD and HDD but they was given to
me by the person who painstakingly compiled that torrent. He did not put up
that torrent (i confirmed it from him) himself and had no knowledge of it
before i asked him about it. I put two and two together when i discovered
that the same songs were missing in both the torrent and the CDs he had
given me.

Regarding your opinion that the number of downloaders were small, i just did
a search for the usual suspects and discovered that the number of people
downloading their stuff were even smaller. I think, we can rest assured that
when the time comes for us to go meet him, we can tell him that he is still
the most widely heard and appreciated guy around! And he will just say,
chhodo woh sab baatein, chalo do shot maarte hai!

Dhruva

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Dhruva,
I myself have downloaded that torrent long back... and am "discovering" gems one by one...
But honestly - don't you think that for a man of his range and magnitude,
this is still a very small number ?
The torrent btw - does not, and surprisingly so - have songs that were
popular and cult hits like "Lekar hum deewana dil" or the entire "Rocky"
folder (there is a directory for each movie) or some other such well-known
movies... but overall, the effort is good and the collection pretty
comprehensive....
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:45 AM
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a really
large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze

around

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
in sincere but inept appreciation....

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-07 17:50:53 UTC

And Shirish, have you downloaded the 5 CD Karaoke Classics of RDB? They are
not original soundtracks but might come in handy after a couple of shots
with friends!

Dhruva

Post by Dhruva Chowdhury
Shirish,
I too have all the songs of that torrent on CD and HDD but they was given
to me by the person who painstakingly compiled that torrent. He did not put
up that torrent (i confirmed it from him) himself and had no knowledge of it
before i asked him about it. I put two and two together when i discovered
that the same songs were missing in both the torrent and the CDs he had
given me.
Regarding your opinion that the number of downloaders were small, i just
did a search for the usual suspects and discovered that the number of people
downloading their stuff were even smaller. I think, we can rest assured that
when the time comes for us to go meet him, we can tell him that he is still
the most widely heard and appreciated guy around! And he will just say,
chhodo woh sab baatein, chalo do shot maarte hai!
Dhruva
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Dhruva,
I myself have downloaded that torrent long back... and am "discovering"
gems one by one...
But honestly - don't you think that for a man of his range and magnitude,
this is still a very small number ?
The torrent btw - does not, and surprisingly so - have songs that were
popular and cult hits like "Lekar hum deewana dil" or the entire "Rocky"
folder (there is a directory for each movie) or some other such well-known
movies... but overall, the effort is good and the collection pretty
comprehensive....
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:45 AM
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a

really

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze

around

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
in sincere but inept appreciation....

Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-07 18:07:50 UTC

Hahaha - no not yet, but I have to.... this is wonderful !!!

Why did I not join you guys before ? ... well, better late than never, I say... :)

--- On Tue, 7/9/10, Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:20 PM

And Shirish, have you downloaded the 5 CD Karaoke Classics of RDB? They are
not original soundtracks but might come in handy after a couple of shots
with friends!

Dhruva

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Dhruva,
I myself have downloaded that torrent long back... and am "discovering"
gems one by one...
But honestly - don't you think that for a man of his range and magnitude,
this is still a very small number ?
The torrent btw - does not, and surprisingly so - have songs that were
popular and cult hits like "Lekar hum deewana dil" or the entire "Rocky"
folder (there is a directory for each movie) or some other such well-known
movies... but overall, the effort is good and the collection pretty
comprehensive....
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:45 AM
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a

really

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze

around

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
in sincere but inept appreciation....

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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shashirao

2010-09-07 18:59:27 UTC

Guys - just a word of caution/advice. Don't let this thread become too detailed on music download/upload and sharing. Take a look at the thread title - and please contribute to Pancham and Mahendra Kapoor's songs.

Focus fellas focus...or maybe by looking at you plans it should be more like Steady....fellas....steady!

Reminds me of another close friend back in Bangalore in 91 - he would become quieter as he drank more...and simply mention 'Steady...' not sure to himself or others. This friend did a perfect mimickry of Shakaal's entry scene in Shaan - with the music. And of Satte Pe Satta. I remember the tea break at the cafeteria - he would light a cigarette and after the first puff, break into a Bachchan-Burman dialog, scene or music. Corporate India was a different place in those days.

Back to Mahendra Kapoor:

'Naana Ho Gaya Diwana' from Mazdoor (welcome Pooviah!) is another song that I have rediscovered since the last 2 years. Simply love the different rhythm patterns in this song. Listen to the dholki, the guitar strums - amazing rhythms in between.

And Mahendra Kapoor sings this one with gusto - giving Dilip Kumar something to dance with. Ok...perhaps not as madcap as Kishore Kumar's 'Saala Main To Sahab Ban Gaya' or 'Upar Wala Dukhiyon Ki Nahin Sunn Ta Re..' in Sagina. But close enough.

I like the portion where Mahendra Kapoor imitates the inebriation piece 'Aaj Kadam Behanke To Dei Do Maafi'. Also like his rustic diction - he does such a commendable job with his pronounciation and enunciation of the folk lingo.

Also of note - unlike general perception, he is actually very adept in incorporating raaga based harkats, alaaps and some of Pancham's catchy dummy words in his song effortlessly. The only others in that legion would be KK, AK, Manna Dey and SPB.

His 'Sadhu Santi Chodh Ke Dekho' again has that bhang-laden masti - one definitely needs to blank out any preconceived notions and give this song a second hear.

Hear hear??
Loin

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Hahaha - no not yet, but I have to.... this is wonderful !!!
Why did I not join you guys before ? ... well, better late than never, I say... :)
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:20 PM
And Shirish, have you downloaded the 5 CD Karaoke Classics of RDB? They are
not original soundtracks but might come in handy after a couple of shots
with friends!
Dhruva

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
Dhruva,
I myself have downloaded that torrent long back... and am "discovering"
gems one by one...
But honestly - don't you think that for a man of his range and magnitude,
this is still a very small number ?
The torrent btw - does not, and surprisingly so - have songs that were
popular and cult hits like "Lekar hum deewana dil" or the entire "Rocky"
folder (there is a directory for each movie) or some other such well-known
movies... but overall, the effort is good and the collection pretty
comprehensive....
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:45 AM
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:23 AM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a

really

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze

around

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
in sincere but inept appreciation....

Dhruva Chowdhury

2010-09-08 02:34:47 UTC

Post by shashirao
Guys - just a word of caution/advice. Don't let this thread become too
detailed on music download/upload and sharing. Take a look at the thread
title - and please contribute to Pancham and Mahendra Kapoor's songs.
Focus fellas focus...or maybe by looking at you plans it should be more
like Steady....fellas....steady!

http://www.picktorrent.com/download/2c/756221/karaoke-classic-r--d--burman-[2008-mp3-vbr-320kbps]---xdr/

and one for Kaustubh:

http://www.picktorrent.com/download/2c/763206/karaoke-classic-kishore-[2008-mp3-vbr-320kbps]---xdr/

and before i sign off this downloading thing, one word of inspiration for
all of you:

Whenever you fall down, never lose hope. Life is a roller-coaster. Hope is a
precious commodity. It gives us the courage to continue through any
struggle. Gather together your courage and strength. Just get up and tell
the bartender: one more, on the rocks please.

Dhruva

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Shirish Prabhudesai

2010-09-07 17:55:17 UTC

Haha - Dhruva... really, you spoke my mind... am feeling in need of 2 shots myself here right now... :)

Yes, I later thought to myself - were you saying that there were that many downloads going on "at the very time" you checked ? In that case - this is one of those rare occasions when a subject as dry and tasteless as statistics has really caught my interest :)

Was discussing at length with Sudhir just this evening and he said a very similar - or probably the same - thing...

<QOUTE>
Pancham never boasted of the past... he never dwelt on earlier achievements... we were talking of where those people who called themselves friends were, nearing his end... and Sudhir laid down things into perspective for me very beautifully...

What would anyone do anyway for him ? Assure him of his greatness.. prop him up like an invalid ?

No - Pancham had a truly and uniquely creative mind.. all he needed was work... for him to be saying to Shammi that he had not composed a single song for 3 months in fact, was much more touching than his being "abandoned" or any such fact or popular notion...
<UNQUOTE>

Which makes us prouder of him still, does it not ? ... :)

--- On Tue, 7/9/10, Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: Dhruva Chowdhury <cdhruva-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Date: Tuesday, 7 September, 2010, 11:14 PM

Shirish,

I too have all the songs of that torrent on CD and HDD but they was given to
me by the person who painstakingly compiled that torrent. He did not put up
that torrent (i confirmed it from him) himself and had no knowledge of it
before i asked him about it. I put two and two together when i discovered
that the same songs were missing in both the torrent and the CDs he had
given me.

Regarding your opinion that the number of downloaders were small, i just did
a search for the usual suspects and discovered that the number of people
downloading their stuff were even smaller. I think, we can rest assured that
when the time comes for us to go meet him, we can tell him that he is still
the most widely heard and appreciated guy around! And he will just say,
chhodo woh sab baatein, chalo do shot maarte hai!

Dhruva

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Shirish Prabhudesai <

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
But there is always a danger of his songs not being preserved on a really
large scale in future unless we make an attempt and do not just laze

around

Post by Shirish Prabhudesai
in sincere but inept appreciation....

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Ali Rashid

2010-09-06 19:58:25 UTC

Shashi,

I wasn't offended by your statement...why would I be ?...I mentioned the point about fans, other artists etc. because it came up in past posts...however I do "agree" with your comments.

Ofcourse this is a Pancham forum, and all the more praise to Pancham and his music.

We are lucky to listen to his compositions.

Cheers

Ali

--- On Mon, 9/6/10, shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

From: shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Received: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:15 PM

Ali,

Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.

This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.

If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.

I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.

Cheers
Shashi

shashirao

2010-09-06 21:08:45 UTC

Ok...I am starting my own collection of posts from this group. Everytime anyone agrees with me - even if it is enclosed within binding double quotes :)

On a rainy day, when no one else agrees with my praise for MAZDOOR (this one's for you Pooviah!) I will open these rare articles of "agreement" and feel vindicated!

Ok...enough of cheap thrills...are there any other Mahendra Kapoor songs for Pancham?

I have an interesting anecdote. I used to own the MIL audio cassette of Romance which had incorrectly credited the 'Dil Ki Fariyaad Hai' song to Mahendra Kapoor along with Chandrashekhar Gadgil and Sushma Shrestha.

And quite honestly I did not notice it for sometime. There are still portions of this song where Manna Dey sounds like Mahendra Kapoor - or I feel there is an uncredited Mahendra Kapoor somewhere there. Of course with the song being what it is - I was busy focussing on the pacy arrangement, the chorals - amazing!

Back to BR Chopra - there is also the Karm song 'Jab Dukh Se Dil Ghabraa Jaaye...Prarthna Kar Prarthna Kar'. I am sure many Pancham fans will be prejudiced in their dislike or ambivalence towards this song. This is a song where I would really appreciate some objective opinion - (surprisingly) preferably from a non-Pancham fan.

Because with with all objectivity - I do not find anything amiss in a song expected of this genre - Mahendra Kapoor's singing is flawless, the music arrangement apt, the tune simple and catchy. So how come this song does not rank high in discussions amongst Pancham fans?

Another interesting anecdote. This one has to do with Yesudas - the other extremely talented singer with whom Pancham did it work as much.

In our Pancham meet in Aug, I attempted to introduce the crowd to the rare Yesudas song with Pancham - there are only 2 - Alag Alag and Ithihaas. I decided to play Itihaas - the 'Aao Tumhe Pyar Karen'.

Forget Yesudas, the entire group immediately wrote off this song as a dull Pancham composition. The one with simple beats, flat singing and nothing noticeable. I had to adamantly ignore the protests and attempted to make everyone listen thru one antara.

Once again, objectively speaking - the song is quite simple and unlike Pancham. But of course there is a certain expectation within every Pancham fan for each of his compositions. Did Yesudas sing badly - no. Was the song melodious - yes. Did the song become popular - yes - in fact more popular than some of the other songs in this soundtrack.

Perhaps because we have not heard much of Pancham-Yesudas, we have high expectations, and are skeptical of any initial attempts. At the same time, with artists with whom Pancham had a longer association, we have a tendency to even overlook some bad singing instances. (Taking no names here...I "respect" and "admire" all singers...there!)

Anyways...back to Pancham and Mahendra Kapoor.

Loin

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,

I wasn't offended by your statement...why would I be ?...I mentioned the point about fans, other artists etc. because it came up in past posts...however I do "agree" with your comments.

Ofcourse this is a Pancham forum, and all the more praise to Pancham and his music.

We are lucky to listen to his compositions.

Cheers

Ali
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Received: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:15 PM

Ali,
Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree with) my statement praising Pancham.
This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other artist when I made that statement.
If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them either.
I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO) popularity and creativity.
Cheers
Shashi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ritesh Gadhvi

2010-09-06 21:18:51 UTC

Yes that Romance cassette cover is a typo. And how about the more
aggresive 'Murti Ganesh Ki'.

Post by shashirao
Ok...I am starting my own collection of posts from this group. Everytime
anyone agrees with me - even if it is enclosed within binding double quotes
:)
On a rainy day, when no one else agrees with my praise for MAZDOOR (this
one's for you Pooviah!) I will open these rare articles of "agreement" and
feel vindicated!
Ok...enough of cheap thrills...are there any other Mahendra Kapoor songs for Pancham?
I have an interesting anecdote. I used to own the MIL audio cassette of
Romance which had incorrectly credited the 'Dil Ki Fariyaad Hai' song to
Mahendra Kapoor along with Chandrashekhar Gadgil and Sushma Shrestha.
And quite honestly I did not notice it for sometime. There are still
portions of this song where Manna Dey sounds like Mahendra Kapoor - or I
feel there is an uncredited Mahendra Kapoor somewhere there. Of course with
the song being what it is - I was busy focussing on the pacy arrangement,
the chorals - amazing!
Back to BR Chopra - there is also the Karm song 'Jab Dukh Se Dil Ghabraa
Jaaye...Prarthna Kar Prarthna Kar'. I am sure many Pancham fans will be
prejudiced in their dislike or ambivalence towards this song. This is a song
where I would really appreciate some objective opinion - (surprisingly)
preferably from a non-Pancham fan.
Because with with all objectivity - I do not find anything amiss in a song
expected of this genre - Mahendra Kapoor's singing is flawless, the music
arrangement apt, the tune simple and catchy. So how come this song does not
rank high in discussions amongst Pancham fans?
Another interesting anecdote. This one has to do with Yesudas - the other
extremely talented singer with whom Pancham did it work as much.
In our Pancham meet in Aug, I attempted to introduce the crowd to the rare
Yesudas song with Pancham - there are only 2 - Alag Alag and Ithihaas. I
decided to play Itihaas - the 'Aao Tumhe Pyar Karen'.
Forget Yesudas, the entire group immediately wrote off this song as a dull
Pancham composition. The one with simple beats, flat singing and nothing
noticeable. I had to adamantly ignore the protests and attempted to make
everyone listen thru one antara.
Once again, objectively speaking - the song is quite simple and unlike
Pancham. But of course there is a certain expectation within every Pancham
fan for each of his compositions. Did Yesudas sing badly - no. Was the song
melodious - yes. Did the song become popular - yes - in fact more popular
than some of the other songs in this soundtrack.
Perhaps because we have not heard much of Pancham-Yesudas, we have high
expectations, and are skeptical of any initial attempts. At the same time,
with artists with whom Pancham had a longer association, we have a tendency
to even overlook some bad singing instances. (Taking no names here...I
"respect" and "admire" all singers...there!)
Anyways...back to Pancham and Mahendra Kapoor.
Loin

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
Â
I wasn't offended by your statement...why would I be ?...I mentioned the
point about fans, other artists etc. because it came up in past
posts...however I do "agree" with your comments.
Â
Ofcourse this is a Pancham forum, and all the more praise to Pancham and his music.
Â
We are lucky to listen to hisÂ compositions.Â
Â
Cheers
Â
Ali
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor
Received: Monday, September 6, 2010, 2:15 PM
Â
Ali,
Not seeing the point here? Unless you are offended by (or do not agree
with) my statement praising Pancham.
This is a Pancham forum - and I really was not thinking about any other
artist when I made that statement.
If there are equally passionate and knowledgeable fans for other other
artists - more power to them. Really have not been thinking of them
either.
I am quite busy keeping up with Pancham's unending (Disclaimer: IMO)
popularity and creativity.
Cheers
Shashi

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having
hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense
depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound,
attract and endear."
----------
One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols.
There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented
artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.
I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.
Cheers
Ali

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

shashirao

2010-09-07 03:47:57 UTC

Ritesh,

You actually mention perhaps the most popular of the Pancham-Mahendra Kapoor combination. This song is Mahendra Kapoor turf - he owns the song and easily overshadows even Kishore in terms of popular taste.

Sure this is an aggressive number - but you need that talent to rouse (as opposed to rile) to excite, thrill and get easily on folks short-term memory.

With that dramatic prelude using the band music brass robustly - the entire band music takes over...and ushers in Mahendra Kapoor with gusto. Pancham has not composed many such tunes that pandered towards simple popularity and instant gratification.

But the point remains that this song is the most popular of the entire soundtrack. And Mahendra Kapoor remains in the forefront when one recalls this number. Mahendra Kapoor walks away with his 'impact'. This in the face of many vintage classics of amazing talent in this album 'Yeh Tanhaiyan', 'Ritu Ru', 'Kuch Bhi Kar Lo' and THE 'Duniya Kya Hai'.

And let me also put the huge caveat/disclaimer here. This has nothing to do with pitting Mahendra Kapoor as better than Kishore Kumar - nor an attempt at analyzing the singing quality comparison.

No root canal analysis. This is more of an attempt at surface cleaning of teeth with no need for local anesthetic or Novocain. As many pseudo music critics/reporter prefer - simply a comment on the song's popularity and the supposed greatness achieved thus.

Lastly I wonder why didn't Pancham utilize Mahendra Kapoor more - especially with the popularity they achieved with this number. And that too Pancham had used Mahendra Kapoor for Sanjeev Kumar - quite unusual selection of playback for Pancham. I recall even Pati Patni Aur Woh had become popular around that time - this could have started a trend for Sanjeev Kumar.

Darn....now I am thinking of all the made-for-Mohd Rafi songs by Pancham that were ruined (some NOT all) by Shabbir and Munna Aziz. Here we had a talented titan - who was very comfortable singing songs of Rafi's style - Pancham could have used Mahendra Kapoor.

Now I will probably start imagining 'Mere Yaar Ko Mere Allah' or 'Aankhon Hi Aankhon Mein' and 'Mar Jayenge Hum Ya To' and 'Tera Jaisa Pagal Premi' with Mahendra Kapoor.

Loin

Post by Ritesh Gadhvi
Yes that Romance cassette cover is a typo. And how about the more
aggresive 'Murti Ganesh Ki'.

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having
hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense
depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound,
attract and endear."
----------
One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols.
There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented
artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.
I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.
Cheers
Ali

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Ritesh Gadhvi
+91 98795 98577

Gaurav Sharma

2010-09-07 06:58:59 UTC

This is an interesting thought Shashi, maybe Mahendra Kapoor's voice could have
been used more frequently post Rafi Sahab's death ... because there were
producers looking for singers to step into Rafi's shoes and MK always was known
to be having that Rafi-like texture (no comparisons though) ... but maybe
because fathers wanted new singers to sing for their sons' debut (I mean
films like Betaab) and maybe because MK had become the voice of older actors by
then (say, Dilip Sahab; because Pancham used MK mainly for Dilip Sahab's numbers
in 1980s and Sanjeev Kumar).

Am also now imagining many Anwar, Munna Aziz or Shabbir Kumar numbers with MK
doing the honours!

________________________________
From: shashirao <shashirao-/***@public.gmane.org>
To: pancham-***@public.gmane.org
Sent: Tue, September 7, 2010 9:17:57 AM
Subject: [Pancham] Re: Pancham with Mahendra Kapoor

Ritesh,

You actually mention perhaps the most popular of the Pancham-Mahendra Kapoor
combination. This song is Mahendra Kapoor turf - he owns the song and easily
overshadows even Kishore in terms of popular taste.

Sure this is an aggressive number - but you need that talent to rouse (as
opposed to rile) to excite, thrill and get easily on folks short-term memory.

With that dramatic prelude using the band music brass robustly - the entire band
music takes over...and ushers in Mahendra Kapoor with gusto. Pancham has not
composed many such tunes that pandered towards simple popularity and instant
gratification.

But the point remains that this song is the most popular of the entire
soundtrack. And Mahendra Kapoor remains in the forefront when one recalls this
number. Mahendra Kapoor walks away with his 'impact'. This in the face of many
vintage classics of amazing talent in this album 'Yeh Tanhaiyan', 'Ritu Ru',
'Kuch Bhi Kar Lo' and THE 'Duniya Kya Hai'.

And let me also put the huge caveat/disclaimer here. This has nothing to do with
pitting Mahendra Kapoor as better than Kishore Kumar - nor an attempt at
analyzing the singing quality comparison.

No root canal analysis. This is more of an attempt at surface cleaning of teeth
with no need for local anesthetic or Novocain. As many pseudo music
critics/reporter prefer - simply a comment on the song's popularity and the
supposed greatness achieved thus.

Lastly I wonder why didn't Pancham utilize Mahendra Kapoor more - especially
with the popularity they achieved with this number. And that too Pancham had
used Mahendra Kapoor for Sanjeev Kumar - quite unusual selection of playback for
Pancham. I recall even Pati Patni Aur Woh had become popular around that time -
this could have started a trend for Sanjeev Kumar.

Darn....now I am thinking of all the made-for-Mohd Rafi songs by Pancham that
were ruined (some NOT all) by Shabbir and Munna Aziz. Here we had a talented
titan - who was very comfortable singing songs of Rafi's style - Pancham could
have used Mahendra Kapoor.

Now I will probably start imagining 'Mere Yaar Ko Mere Allah' or 'Aankhon Hi
Aankhon Mein' and 'Mar Jayenge Hum Ya To' and 'Tera Jaisa Pagal Premi' with
Mahendra Kapoor.

Loin

Post by Ritesh Gadhvi
Yes that Romance cassette cover is a typo. And how about the more
aggresive 'Murti Ganesh Ki'.

Post by ali_rashid83
Shashi,
"And having an idol as Pancham - we are really fortunate to having
hitched our wagon to the brightest star. His talent is of such immense
depth - that even after 30-40 years, the compositions still astound,
attract and endear."
----------
One could also apply the above statement to any of their music idols.
There are as passionate and knowledgeable fans of any talented
artist(s), whether its Pancham, S-J, Madan Mohan, Rafi or anyone else.
I agree, Pancham's compositions are fresh and evergreen.
Cheers
Ali

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--
Ritesh Gadhvi
+91 98795 98577

Ritesh Gadhvi

2010-09-07 07:15:26 UTC